Real English Conversations: Perfectionism and procrastination 3

Posted on May 6, 2010
Filed Under Intermediate, Learning tips, Listening, Real English conversations | 13 Comments

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Introduction
Hi! Lori here, welcoming you to another episode of Real English Conversations from BetterAtEnglish.com. In today’s conversation, my friend Yvette returns to help me finish our earlier conversation about perfectionism and procrastination. This time we focus on the strategies that we’ve found helpful in our own battles with this debilitating problem. As always, you can find the vocabulary notes and full transcript of this podcast on our website, www.BetterAtEnglish.com.

OK, here we go!

Conversation Transcript

Lori: Actually, there was one thing that I think in our last conversation about perfectionism and procrastination that we didn’t really cover…
Yvette: OK
Lori: …and that’s what you do to get out of the procrastination habit once you’ve identified that you have a problem with it. Like if you have any methods that you’ve used to help you over the fear of starting or working on whatever it is you’re supposed to be working on.
Yvette: [Laughs] You’re asking me?
Lori: Yeah, yeah we didn’t talk about that.
Yvette: How you actually get out of it? Wow…
Lori: If there’s anything you do…
Yvette: If you find out, let me know. I mean, that’s kind of tricky. Wow, that’s something to think about. Well, usually I start with a plan. You break it down and smaller bits…so… the way that I can do it sometimes is to just say, “There is…I need to do a task and let me just first open the file folder.” That’s my first step. Once I’ve got that opened up and I’ve got the file maybe even opened in my browser — whatever I needed to be in — then I can start working on it. But it really is just kicking my butt…giving myself a good kick and going, “Come on, you can do it today.” But I tend to just find 15 other things to do first, which is clear my desk…oh yeah, I need lunch…oh, I need to do to the — let me do the groceries right now instead of later, so I don’t get interrupted by that. Um, so I tried to get rid of things, but I don’t know, I try to plan it better, but that usually doesn’t work — for me anyway.
Lori: Uh huh. Well, it sounds to me, when you mention that, for example, if it’s a writing project, that you start by just opening the file….
Yvette: Yeah.
Lori: …to me that sounds like you’re breaking it down to something you know you can do that really doesn’t require any performance. I mean it’s not difficult to just open the file and look at it, but then at least you make that first step.
Yvette: Yeah, it’s…I do find though, that is the hardest step, that very first one. Once I’ve got that one, it pretty much moves on from there. Once I’ve got the file and I know what I’m looking at — and maybe part of that is that it’s a bit chaotic, especially as a writer I may have 15 drafts of a similar text, and I’m not even sure what the first one or the last one was that I used and which one I was in, and I try to make notes of this in a notebook that I keep specifically for that purpose, umm, but to know what part, what I should be working on, just that, identifying that helps. And then I can open that file in my word processor and start working, umm, and then it’s okay. And then it’s just a matter of not getting interrupted by anything or anybody.
Lori: Yeah, that’s really hard.
Yvette: Because once that interruption comes, then it’s very hard to go back to it.
Lori: Yeah, it takes you a while to get back into the flow once you’ve been interrupted.
Yvette: But it’s also kind of overcoming a sort of fear of not being able to do it. Umm, you know, when you want to start a task and you think, “Ah, I don’t know, it’s a big task; I’m not sure I can do it.” You know, to just get started and throw out the idea that it needs to be perfect, and that you know, any effort right now would be good. But by that time though, I’ve already procrastinated to a point of it almost not being possible anymore, or at least being way too late. You know what I mean? It’s like you’ve already kind of passed five deadlines at this point.
Lori: Yeah, mmm. I guess were coming round again to that idea that just getting started is often the hardest part, and by that I don’t mean like actually “started at the beginning of a project,” but maybe even when you’re working on it, like, getting started with your work period for the day, or whatever, that’s really hard.
Yvette: Yeah.
Lori: And I found, for me, there was actually a site on the Internet that had what they called a “procrastination hack“…
Yvette: Okay!
Lori: ..that I’ve actually used it from time to time, and, it, I find that it’s been quite helpful in just getting me…when it…especially for jobs that are just a matter of like, sitting your butt in the chair for a certain amount of time and just focusing on it, you know, to get it done…umm, and what they call it is the Procrastination (10+2)x5 hack.
Yvette: Okay…

Timer Lori uses for the procrastination hack

Lori: And basically what it is is you need to use a little timer, and you set your timer for 10 minutes, and the idea is that you’re going to sit down and you’re going to single-mindedly focus on your task and work on it for 10 minutes, and after that you get to take a two-minute break and just screw around and do what you want for two minutes. And after that you’ve got another 10-minute work period, and then followed by a two-minute break. And if you do that five times you’ve basically spent an hour, of which 50 minutes you’ve been productively working on your task. And it sounds, like, really kind of cheesy and stupid but when you’re, like, so desperate, and like, can’t find any way to get started and you know that “Well, if I just do that first 10 minutes, then I can spend two minutes dorking around and doing whatever I want,” it just kind of makes it more concrete…that you have the specific work period…
Yvette: I see..
Lori: And it’s not too long, I mean, 10 minutes is only 10 minutes. And I’ve found — I don’t actually use it anymore — but I have used it in the past, and I found that it was actually, kind of a way to make the task seem less daunting. You know, you’re putting a limit on it, and you’re giving yourself a chance to screw around, and…umm, yeah, I found it really useful.
Yvette: I see. I would find 15 ways around that.
[Laughter]
Lori: Really?
Yvette: I would probably spend most of the time figuring out how I could make that work in a different way!
Lori: Uh huh!
Yvette: Now, what I do do, especially when I’m writing and I know…I mean, it’s to tell myself I need to write for four hours today.
Lori: Umm hmm.
Yvette: And then I have a stopwatch, and every time I stop writing I just hit the stopwatch. And I go, “Well, that’s it…you’re not working right now.” And umm, at the end of the day I just have to have four hours’ worth of work, and I don’t care how I get there, but I just do it that way. And the advantage of it is that…I discovered, that, the amazing amount of work you can do in four hours. You know, you’re not thinking about, it. It’s so much work, and, yet you don’t feel like you’ve worked all that much ’cause it’s only four hours in a day, big deal. But, that helps.
Lori: Yeah, to me that sounds like a similar idea, except that you’ve…you’re a lot more flexible in the time… that you’ve set the limit to four hours, and…
Yvette: ‘Cause I would hate to get interrupted by anything. You know, if I got 10 minutes of writing done I’m in it, and now I don’t want to stop writing, I just want to keep going.
Lori: Yeah, well that’s kind of the idea, is that, you know, once you then get in the flow you wouldn’t need to do it.
Yvette: Okay, that’s the idea.
Lori: It’s really more for when you’ve got this huge resistance to just even getting started and even…are completely blocked and just can’t get going at all ’cause you’ve built up to be this huge thing, but then kind of telling yourself, “Well, I only need to do 10 minutes.” To me that was like a huge help.
Yvette: It’s a very big mental exercise, isn’t it?
Lori: Mmm.
Yvette: It’s not about the physical or the time … “you don’t have the time.” You do have the time, it’s just that there is a mental block.
Lori: Yeah.
Yvette: And you’re not sure what to do next. Well, you can think of a lot of other things to do, and it’s just because for some reason you just don’t feel comfortable, or you feel that the time needs to be right, or the atmosphere, or that it’s too warm or it’s too cold ,or you know, 15 other things running through your mind: “What else can I do?” Instead of the thing you should do.
Lori: Yeah, umm… a lot of those things you mention, like finding all these other things that you want to do instead of the thing you should be doing…I think those are all kind of avoidance strategies to protect you from, you know, the thing that you’re afraid of in…to begin with is that, “Oh, it won’t be good enough” or “It’s going to be hard” or “People aren’t going to like it.” You know, those are all the things going in the back of your mind that have you…
Yvette: “What’s the point of this?”
Lori: Yeah, Exactly. Exactly. So it’s all just avoidance.
Yvette: That’s what it is. If…umm…when I’m…as a writer, I often come across things that I’m not sure in the end to anyone would even care about or like, and I have to do it all because I like it, and then it’s harder. But on the other hand, I do have to say that once I make it enjoyable for myself, I give myself, say, a treat at the end of it. Like, I give myself some reward. Then I can actually get it going. You cannot…you know, there’s one thing I really want to do, a movie I really want to see, or a TV show I don’t want to miss, then I’m telling myself, “You can’t watch it until you finish the task at hand.”
Lori: Okay, yeah that’s a good strategy.
Yvette: So not punishment but reward.

Final Words

This concludes our conversation on procrastination and perfectionism, at least for the time being. Now if I can only find the perfect topic for the perfect podcast, we’ll be back soon with another episode. Until then, you can find the archive of all our old episodes as well as the full transcripts and vocabulary lists on our website, BetterAtEnglish.com. Thanks for listening, and bye for now!

VOCABULARY

(Download the pdf for vocabulary notes)
cover
tricky
kicking my butt
pretty much
hack
screw around
cheesy
dorking around
daunting
find 15 ways around
big deal
in the back of your mind
the task at hand

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Real English Conversations: Telling time in English 1

Posted on April 1, 2010
Filed Under British vs. American English, Grammar and usage, Intermediate, Real English conversations | 11 Comments

Standard Podcast [9:35m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

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Introduction
Hi, Lori here welcoming you to another episode of Real English Conversations from BetterAtEnglish.com. Today’s conversation is about some of the differences between American and British English usage when it comes to telling time. This conversation also marks the first appearance of my very own mom here on B@E. She give us her perspective on American usage, while my English friend Michael (whom you know from earlier podcasts) returns this episode to cover the British point of view. This episode follows directly from the previous episode, number 44, so if this is your first time listening to our podcasts you should listen to episode 44 first.

The pdf that goes with this episode contains the full transcript, the vocabulary list, the image of clocks that I used to elicit time expressions from my mom and Michael, and some usage notes about time expressions in British and American English. You can download it directly in iTunes, or visit betteratenglish.com and download from there. I think that’s enough introduction for today — let’s get on with the conversation!

Conversation Transcript

[Lori:In this informal language experiment, I showed my mom a picture of four clock faces and asked her to read me the times. This was to see what prepositions she would use, particularly if she would avoid the preposition past as Yvette's former teachers claimed Americans do.]

Mom: OK, well starting on the top left I have ten m minutes after nine, and then the next one to the right is twenty-five after seven, and then on the bottom left is five past six and the last one on the bottom right is a quarter past twelve.
Lori: OK! Perfect! You scored 100%
Mom: Wow, I got 100%! I do know how to tell time on a regular analog clock!
Lori: OK…now this is very interesting because you are a native American speaker, and you haven’t had…I doubt you’ve had much exposure to British English and definitely not ever had to teach English using British English materials or anything like that.
Mom: No, for sure.
Lori: Yeah, the problem is..is that sometimes when non-native speakers are learning English, teachers will tell them misguided rules that they maybe read in some outdated book somewhere saying things like, “In American English you have to use after when you talk about time; you can’t use past.”
Mom: Yeah, I think one time I said past..I think I said five past six. In fact I purposely said past because I was trying to give you some variety of the difference…we can tell time…because Americans will say past.
Lori: Yeah! That’s what I think as well, that I…maybe naturally I’d be more likely to say after but I wouldn’t think it was weird or strange if someone said past.
Mom: No…no, that’s exactly…’cause…I think the first couple of times I said after and then I thought, “Oh I’m going to give her a little variety,” so I’ll say five past six because we do say that, but it’s…I mean we wouldn’t think it’s odd.
Lori: OK, that’s great, and that’s really just the point I wanted to make… that often…
Mom: In fact I think we especially do it with with…on the half hour, we say half past twelve.
Lori: Right, right, half past twelve, definitely. Yeah, you wouldn’t say half after twelve.
Mom: Nuh-uh, we always say past for then. See, we use both.
Lori: And the interesting thing is I used analog clocks on purpose because I was worried that if I just wrote the times in digital time you would have said, for example, seven twenty-five.
Mom: Exactly, ’cause that’s what you see on a digital clock.
Lori: So anyway, that was my little experiment!
Mom: OK!

[laughter]

[Lori: After doing the experiment with my mom, I went on and did the same experiment with Michael to get the British perspective.]
Lori: …and read the times that you see on the clocks.
Michael: Yeah, it’s ten past nine… that’s from the top left. The top right is twenty-five past seven. The bottom left..err..five past six, and the bottom right one is quarter past twelve.
Lori: OK, cool! You’ve also scored 100%. You can tell time on an analog clock!
Michael: [laughs] Yay!
Lori: And the reason that I asked you to do this is…I had a discussion with Yvette the other day and she remembered learning when she was studying English, umm — she’s had both…been exposed to people, you know, trying to teach her British English and American English — and she somehow was told that if you’re going to speak British English you have to say past just like you just did, like, it’s ten past…
Michael: It’s true as well, it’s..in fact, I can tell you that…I mean she’s absolutely right. I mean, never mind the experimenting, that is how we are taught. And I’ve never heard anybody say ten after, you know, three or something like that until I met an American person.
Lori: OK! OK, but did you still understand it the first time you heard…did it cause any problems?
Michael: Oh it didn’t cause any any confusion… you say 10, you know five past, ten past quarter past, twenty past, twenty-five past.
Lori: Uh-huh.
Michael: And when it’s around it’s around, it’s twenty-five to, twenty to, quarter to, ten to, five to…
Lori: Right.
Michael: But I’ve heard some American people say ten till..
Lori: Oh yeah, ten till six, yeah quarter till, um-hmm.
Michael: You never ever ever ever ever say that in British English, it’s always past and it’s to and it’s drummed into you.
Lori: OK, that’s quite interesting.
Michael: There’s no variation whatsoever, but people can understand obviously, I mean you’d have to be a bit of a [bleep] jerk to…
Lori: Um-hmm.
Michael: Being deliberately obtuse if you’re going, “Huh? I don’t get it.” You know, because it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain, you know, what it means. But it is…it stands out as being unusual ’cause this is… yet we have this little clocks with the, you know, the movable hands.
Lori: Yeah, analog clocks.
Micheal: Yeah!
Lori: In fact, I was quite cunning when I made the picture to send to you. I made…I used analog clocks on purpose just to elicit the preposition past, ’cause if I had just written the times, like in digital format, you probably would have said things like…
Michael: Nine ten…yeah. But I don’t…I don’t say times like that anyway. I always do it the old-fashioned way. even after the advent of digital things because my dad would belt me if I said it, err, you know, the digital way, I’d… seriously, I’d get in trouble when my parents would yell at me.
Lori: Oh, that’s funny why, why…Did they ever say why they didn’t like it?
Michael: Yes, they felt it was dumbing things down, err, and it meant that you know you wouldn’t be learning you wouldn’t know how to tell the time properly. Err, because if you just read it out like that…err…and…I mean I think they had a very good point, because if you, you know, if you only knew how to tell the time like that and then you were at, oh I don’t know, some big train station somewhere where they had an analog clock and you’re going, “Oh, umm, let me work out bla bla bla,” you know, it’s…it’s not so good.
Lori: Yeah, it’s definitely, I think, everyone needs to know how to tell time on an analog clock but I wouldn’t go so far as to force people to use that every time they were talking about time because I think the digital system is so established now and it really makes perfect sense.
Michael: Yeah, and my, I mean, I can hear you hang on my parents are total [bleeping] Nazis when it comes to…
Lori: [laughs in disbelief]
Michael: But anyway… I love them but they’re…you know…misguided in the extreme.
Lori: You know I’m going to have to bleep you out now.
Michael: [laughs]
Lori: We’re not recording for Uncensored English!

Final Words

That’s all for this time. Of course, in these spontaneous conversations we can’t cover all of the usage issues that apply, and sometimes the examples we come up with on the spot might not be the best from a teaching perspective. So to make up for that I’ve added some extra usage notes to the pdf file for this episode. I hope you find them useful. Thanks for listening, and bye for now!

See the PDF for the Vocabulary list and usage notes.

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